Données reprises du forum Steel warrior (j'en avais déjà parlé ^^) et d'un post sur le forum officiel (tres interessant d'ailleurs comme post).
Citation:
Résumé et explications en français
Il existe donc 3 facons différentes d'être la cible principale :
- soigner tout le monde comme un fou. Plus on remet des points de vie aux joueurs, moins l'adversaire aime le soigneur. A noter que cela ne fonctionne que sur les pv remis, si un soin rend 4000pv mais qu'il ne manquait que 3000pv dans la barre de vie alors seuls les 3000pv sont comptés.
- mettre beaucoup de dégâts. plus l'adversaire a bobo, plus il a de chance d'aller taper la personne qui lui fait mal. Comme pour les soins, ca ne marche que pour les pv effectivement retirés. Si un coup retire 600pv a un adversaire qui n'en avait que 400 alors l'aggro généré se monte au 400 dégats. En fait on s'en fout parce que dans ce cas l'adversaire est mort
mais, plus interessant, si l'adversaire a une armure qui réduit les dégâts, on parle des dégâts après réduction.
- énerver l'adversaire avec des techniques. Toutes les techniques, tous les sorts, en plus des dégâts, causent une menace supplémentaire. C'est la le point fort du guerrier, il dispose d'un nombre très important de techniques qui génèrent de la haine a foison. Vous avez de quoi vous faire detester sans même avoir à lui faire mal. Par exemple, briser l'armure est source d'énervement. Ces techniques sont vos meilleures amies!!! comptez dessus, plus que sur les dégâts.
Dans le cas ou vous combattez plusieurs adversaires, les techniques et les dégâts n'enervent que les adversaires qu'ils touchent. Si vous tapez un adversaire celui d'a côté n'en a rien à faire. En revanche, un soin génère de la menace sur tous les ennemis présents. Un soigneur qui soigne se fait voir par tous les adversaires environnants, pensez-y...si vous voulez rester la cible.
I) Les techniques d'aggro
Nous partons du principe que nous comptons en points de haine. L'adversaire tape celui pour lequel il a le plus de haine, et nous avons vu que chaque sort utilisé augmente la haine.
Voici les chiffres précis :
- envoyer un sort de soin représente un point de haine
- infliger un dégat représente 4 points de haine par point de dégat
Ces valeurs de haine sont celles d'un guerrier avec le talent "défi", en posture def.
les points de haine générés par les soins sont ceux d'un pretre avec le talent de réduction d'aggro. Il s'agit donc du meilleur des cas (en tous cas le mien
)
Les techniques du guerrier génèrent en plus un certain nombre de points de haine en supplément. Voici la liste des techniques, et les points de haine supplémentaires qu'elles infligent.
ces valeurs sont très approximatives voire inexactes, elles ne correspondent qu'a des séries d'essais sur certains mobs avec certaines conditions cela donne néanmoins une bonne idée de la valeur de haine générée par ces techniques
* Vengeance génère 1200 points de haine
* fracasser armure, environ 1000 points de haine
* heurt de bouclier génère 1000 points de haine
* coup de tonerre, environ 200 à 250 sur chaque ennemi touché (4 au maximum)
* coup de bouclier, environ 750
* cri d'affliction : environ 175 par ennemi touché (illimité en nombre)
* frappe heroique environ 600
* enchainement : environ 400 (touche deux adversaires)
* rage sanguinaire : 335 sur tous les mobs qui sont focus sur vous (<--- bizarre hein
)
A tous ces coups, rajoutés les degats(x4) pour savoir quel est le total de haine générée.
Pour info, sur une armure "forte" (50%) :
1. Heurt de bouclier - 1950 haine totale.
2. Vengeance - 1370 haine totale.
3. Fracasser armure - 1050 haine totale.
4. Coup de bouclier - 930 haine totale.
5. Frappe heroique - 890 haine totale.
6. Enchainement - 490 haine totale.
7. Coup de tonerre -340 haine totale.
8. Rage sanguinaire - 335 haine totale.
9. Cri d'affliction - 175 haine totale.
Les techniques les plus avantageuses par point de rage :
1. Vengeance - 273 points de haine par point de rage.
2. Coup de bouclier - 93 points de haine par point de rage.
3. Fracasser armure - 70(88) points de haine par point de rage.
4. Heurt de bouclier - 65 points de haine par point de rage.
5. Heroic strike - 49(59) points de haine par point de rage.
6. Enchainement - 21(27) points de haine par point de rage.
7. Cri d'affliction - 18 points de haine par point de rage.
8. Coup de tonerre - 17 points de haine par point de rage.
Les chiffres entre parenthese indiquent la valeur dans le cas ou on a le talent approprié, qui réduit le cout en rage d'une technique.
Notez cependant que ce sont les valeurs pour un seul adversaire, dans le cas ou vous tanker 5 adversaires la haine générée par Coup de tonerre est multipliée par 4, celle d'enchainement par 2 et celle du cri d'affliction par 5 (limite d'ennemis oblige pour enchainement et cri d'affliction).
Voila qui devrait apporter pas mal de lumière sur votre facon de tanker
c'est bien beau, mais ca veut dire quoi? ben, reprenons la belle table numéro 2.
Celle ci nous indique que si je place une vengeance, je vais générer 1370 haine. Cela signifie que le soigneur va poivoir soigner 1370pv sans se faire voir de cet adversaire. Et que le mage peut envoyer un sort a 1370/4 = environ 350 degats sans reprendre l'aggro.
Le texte original sur les techniques d'aggro des wars avec leur équivalence haine/heal.
Assumptions
All healing spells create the same hate per point healing. Crudely confirmed before tests.
Hate does not decay over time. Observation suggests this holds true.
Initial hate is negligible (a 50 point heal pulls aggro)
Findings
They fixed shield slam! Before 1.7 the innate hate value worked out to around 200, it is now closer to 1000. See its entry for the test results as of the 1.7 test patch.
The damage done by skills (such as the 450-550 of shield slam) incurs hate equal to normal melee damage. Each skill has a set amount of hate attached (I call it "innate" hate) when the skill lands on a mob. The existance of this "innate" hate is determined mainly through crits. A heroic strike crit, for example, will do (innate hate+damage) worth of hate, not (2*total hate).
Cleave has extra hate attached to it much like heroic strike.
Whirlwind, Mortal Strike, and Bloodthirst have no innate hate.
Piercing howl is absolutely zero (or an immesurably low amount of) hate.
Sunder armor is the same amount of hate per application, regardless of how many sunders are already on. The same is true for demoralizing shout and thunderclap.
The sunder armor debuff seems completely independent of the hate it generates. Hate does not decrease when the debuff wears off and, as mentioned above, multiple applications, even beyond the stackable limit, will give just as much hate as the first.
Shield bash damage is independent of the innate hate it produces, as with other skills. Thus, shield bash crits only produce hate equal to the extra 44 or 45 damage.
Heroic strike is a surprisingly high amount of hate, and has very acceptable efficiency with talents, against low armor, and with a fast weapon.
The shield block/revenge combo is only marginally better for hate generation than sunder armor (with talents). The exception is that shield block (with talents) often forces two consecutive revenge openings, and the mitigated damage is an obvious bonus.
Shield slam was about 200 innate hate in 1.6. It is close to 1000 now.
Skills and attacks create roughly 1.65 times more hate in defensive stance than in battle stance.
Notes
No number is exact. This is more of a loose guide.
I was very careful and methodical in my tests. Overhealing and other interfering factors were kept to a minimum (hopefully zero!).
All attacks were done by a warrior with defiance and in defensive stance unless otherwise noted.
The warrior has improved shield bash and does not have any level of improved revenge.
All healing was done by a holy/disc priest with the 20% threat reducing talent and inspiration (which I have determined to be aggro-free).
With this setup, tests were performed beforehand to determine the healing/damage hate ratio. 1 point of damage = 4.0 points of healing = 4.0 hate
Hate per point of rage does include damage.
There is a margin of error, but I tried to minimize it as much as possible. The primary source of error is the fact that the minimum healing increment is 52.
Skill Name
-Rage cost.
-Listed damage before armor is applied, taken directly from the tooltip.
-Attached or "innate" hate. This is completely independent of the damage the skill produces. It is purely a hidden "bonus blast" of hate when the skill lands successfully.
-Total hate including damage under varying armor levels.
-Hate per point of rage. This number indicates efficiency if you're wondering how best to dump your rage. Once again, it does include damage.
Formula used in #5: [ ((HateMin + HateMax)/2) + (((DamageMin + DamageMax)/2) * (1-DamageReduction) * 4.0 ] / RageCost
-perks: qualitative reasons to use a certain skill
-negs: negative stuff about the skill
Revenge
5 rage
64-78 damage
1200-1250 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
1510 total hate
302 hate per point rage
25% Damage Reduction
1440 total hate
288 hate per point rage
50% Damage Reduction
1370 total hate
273 hate per point rage
perks: very high efficiency, chance to stun with talents, fair damage for rage cost
negs: unreliable, and often requires use of a 10 rage skill to allow its use
Shield Slam
30 rage
450-550 damage
925-975 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
2950 total hate
98 hate per point rage
25% Damage Reduction
2450 total hate
82 hate per point rage
50% Damage Reduction
1950 total hate
65 hate per point rage
perks: 50% chance to dispell 1 magic effect, good damage, much improved efficiency as of test patch 1.7
negs: efficiency is very dependent on armor
Thunderclap
20 rage
103 damage (in battle stance, hate modifier of 2.25)
200-250 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
460 total hate
23 hate per point rage
25% Damage Reduction
400 total hate
20 hate per point rage
50% Damage Reduction
340 total hate
17 hate per point rage
perks: 10% attack rate debuff, affects up to 4 targets
negs: must be used in battle stance, breaks CC
Sunder Armor
12 rage (15 without talents)
no damage
1025-1075 "innate" hate
1050 total hate
88 hate per point rage (70 without talents)
perks: lowers target armor, no cooldown
negs: Some claim aggro is spotty with sunder armor when the debuff gets pushed off, when the debuff expires, or when it's stacked more than 5 times. My findings suggest none of this is true.
Shield Bash
10 rage
45 damage (ignores armor)
725-775 "innate" hate
930 total hate
93 hate per point rage
perks: spell interruption, silences for 3 seconds with talents
negs: long cooldown, spamming of the skill means it won't be available when needed
Demorializing Shout
10 rage
no damage
165-185 "innate" hate
175 total hate
18 hate per point rage
perks: attack power debuff, unlimited targets
negs: very low rage efficiency
Heroic Strike at 3 rage per swing
15 rage (18 without talents)
138 damage
590-630 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
1160 total hate
77 hate per point rage (65 without talents)
25% Damage Reduction
1020 total hate
68 hate per point rage (57 without talents)
50% Damage Reduction
890 total hate
59 hate per point rage (49 without talents)
perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire
Heroic Strike at 7 rage per swing
19 rage (22 without talents)
138 damage
590-630 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
1160 total hate
61 hate per point rage (53 without talents)
25% Damage Reduction
1020 total hate
54 hate per point rage (47 without talents)
50% Damage Reduction
890 total hate
47 hate per point rage (40 without talents)
perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire
Cleave at 3 rage per swing
23 rage
50 damage (110 with talents)
370-420 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
590 total hate (830 with talents)
26 hate per point rage (36 with talents)
25% Damage Reduction
540 total hate (720 with talents)
23 hate per point rage (31 with talents)
50% Damage Reduction
490 total hate (610 with talents)
21 hate per point rage (27 with talents)
perks: hits two targets, cooldown is weapon speed, more than doubled efficiency if a second enemy is in frontal arc, fair damage, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire
Cleave at 7 rage per swing
27 rage
50 damage (110 with talents)
370-420 "innate" hate
0% Damage Reduction
590 total hate (830 with talents)
22 hate per point rage (31 with talents)
25% Damage Reduction
540 total hate (720 with talents)
20 hate per point rage (27 with talents)
50% Damage Reduction
490 total hate (610 with talents)
18 hate per point rage (23 with talents)
perks: hits two targets, cooldown is weapon speed, more than doubled efficiency if a second enemy is in frontal arc, fair damage, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire
Bloodrage
20 rage generated
337 damage to a level 60 player (168 with talents)
325-345 "innate" hate
perks: generates a good amount of rage
negs: the mob must be focused on you for it to create aggro, takes hp, less with talents
Final words
Shield slam is very effective in its improved form, especially in raid situations where rage is hard to spend. Revenge is best used whenever possible, as any warrior could have told you before.
Although it may be unrelated to this thread, protection warriors need a tanking edge of more than 10% armor. Managing hate is the only thing protection warriors have a clear advantage in, but honestly, in the raiding game any warrior can hold aggro just fine. I came up with the idea of removing anticipation and replacing it with a high-tier protection talent that adds 33% to defense from items, but...well, that probably won't happen.
Certain skills like shield slam heavily favor low armor targets. The skill is immensely more useful on a fully sunderered or naturally low armor monster.
And finally, note that the 4.0 healing to damage ratio is only useful for a protection warrior in defensive stance with a priest that has the -20% threat talent. That number is more of a reference point for m